Time for a new thread!
Posted on May 15th, 2008 by Jay Wortman
Let’s start posting on a new thread so everyone doesn’t have to scroll all the way down the old one.
I would also like to inform everyone that there will be periods from time to time during which I won’t be replying to posts. This is because my travels sometimes take me into areas where internet connectivity is not available or difficult. I usually get this caught up fairly quickly when I return.
26 Responses to “Time for a new thread!”
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Thank you so much for your work. My mom’s family is just ravaged by diabetes and it looks like I’m on my way to developing it as well (I’m 34, 5′6″ and almost 230 pounds). Wouldn’t you know, we have Native American ancestry, recently enough in our ancestry that we could all register with the tribe we came from.
It gets better. My dad has some Native ancestry on his mom’s side too, but as far as he knew there was no history of diabetes in his family. He was diagnosed in late 2005 and I think he is still in denial about it. Then he learned his younger brother has it too.
My family is also Cajun and diabetes just runs rampant in that community. Unfortunately there is also a lot of poverty in southern Louisiana. A person in poverty who also has diabetes has few choices about what they can eat, and wouldn’t you know it, all the charity food banks down there give their clients things like rice and pasta and beans. It’s got to be exacerbating the health situation.
And you can’t tell the powers that be that this kind of thing is killing people. They’re still telling folks that we get diabetes because we eat too much fat! Right, because diabetes TOTALLY has EVERYTHING to do with fat metabolism. That must be why my insulin spikes when I eat fat, or why I gain weight like crazy when I eat a high-fat, low-carb diet. (In case anyone missed it, that last sentence was sarcasm. Pretend it’s Opposite Day.)
I want to eat low-carb and I would like my daughter to eat ‘relatively’ low-carb, not for weight loss but because she’s three with a terrible family health history and needs to establish good habits–I want her to reach for veggies first as a carb food instead of, say, bread. It’s hard, though. I tell her dad about all this stuff I read about low-carb eating and diabetes and he still brings junk food over.
I think part of the problem is that we still think of our bodies as machines. The success of the calorie hypothesis alone is testimony to that–people actually believe their stomachs are big old bomb calorimeters that incinerate food! What got me interested in low-carb eating in the first place, though, and Atkins in particular, was remembering what I had learned in honors biology in high school about glucose metabolism and protein structures in living things. So I think the lack of a good science background for most Americans is impacting this situation too.
Dr. Jay’s Reply:
Thanks for your thoughtful comment. Your observation that the reason we are susceptible to misinformation is that most people don’t get sufficient science education is interesting. The problem is worse than you think, though. When you start to look critically at the science that has been used to support the current dietary recommendations you begin to realize that the standards are very poor and that many of the scientists upon whom we have relied for dietary advice appear to have been either incompetent or compromised. You may be interested in Gary Taubes’ excellent book on this topic, “Good Calories, Bad Calories”, in which he meticulously documents how the nutritional science establishment has led us down the wrong path.
I saw from the poster made about the interim analysis of results from the study at Alert Bay that tofu was not allowed during the “induction” phase of the Traditional Diet Program.
1. If I am interested in following this diet, does this mean that I should not be drinking soymilk?
2. What are your thoughts on Edamame (soybeans)?
3. When does the “induction” phase end?
Thank you.
Dr. Jay’s Reply:
We didn’t include soya products in the study diet. The amount of carb in things like soymilk and tofu can be significant if you are consuming any quantity. I like edamame but will eat only a few since the beans themselves do contain some carb. In our study we encouraged people to stay on the lower carb “induction” throughout, although, as they lost weight and improved things like cholesterol and blood sugar, we were a little more permissive in our guidance. The problem is that when you have developed insulin resistance, your tolerance for carbs will have become quite low and even small amounts can arrest progress and cause weight loss to stall or to reverse. I personally find that the lower I stay in terms of carbs, the better off I am.
‘White Man’ brought measles and mumps and marijuana from Europe to the Americas along with Coffee and Tea and Milk and Alcohol and Wheat. — He then took the Potato and Corn and Beans and Hybrid them thousands of times until they were also poisons. — Like speed, another one of his poisons, the resulting corn sugar and starch and carbohydrates are pure stimulant poisons that effect our minds and bodies and spirits profoundly. Fruits and vegetables he did the same thing with. — Tobacco he also destroyed. He then took Coca and destroyed that!
He then added his religion to this mix. — As the Eagle Flies is how man should eat, drink and live. — Dr. Jay leads the way!
Hi Dr. Wortman,
Excellent documentary and great website! My question concerns the “one golden shot” that people talk about with regards to low-carb. A few years ago I lost weight quickly and easily on Atkins but, unfortunately, got off track and gained the weight back. I later tried again only to discover that my weight really doesn’t budge past the 5 or so pounds I lose in the first week. Do you have any insight into this or are you aware of any research into this phenomena? Dr. Atkins himself advised people to return from Maintenance to Induction when needed if their weight was creeping up - clearly he didn’t think it was a one shot deal! I believe in the science of low-carb and don’t want to give up, but I need to lose weight and if it’s not going to work for me anymore I don’t know what else to do! Thanks in advance for any and all help.
Dr. Jay’s Reply:
There is definitely something to this. I have seen people who, just as you describe, lose weight easily on low-carb, regain the weight by eating carbs again and then struggle and fail on their subsequent attempts to follow a low-carb diet. This is something I have discussed with my very experienced colleagues and I don’t think anyone has a good explanation for why it happens. Dr. Steve Phinney, when he ran a low-carb clinic at UCDavis, would advise people who had fallen off the diet and regained weight that they should wait at least a year before trying low-carb again. In your case it sounds like it has been a few years. Dr. Atkins’ approach was to cut the carbs at the first sign of weight regain and that probably worked. The problem appears to develop when you have put some pounds back on and resumed a high-carb diet for awhile. I am sorry I don’t have more of an answer for you. I would encourage you to keep trying, however, as I think you will eventually succeed even if it is harder to do the second time around.
Addictions will lead us up and down and around and around thousands of rabbit trails, endlessly if that’s what it takes in their quest to get us back to ‘using’ the addictive substance we are addicted too. Again and again if we let them! — We are Addicts! Everyone of us! — Most willing, or we think that we are anyway but it’s just our addictions talking! We think we like them, our bodies say so!
So the ‘golden first time around’ in the world of low carbing is just another ‘rabbit trail’ to divert us! — Rabbit trails are real!
Here’s how it works. — We know alcohol and coffee and tea and tobacco and a lot of drugs are addictive. Everyone of us knows this.
Sugar and corn syrup and hybrid carbohydrates we do NOT know are addictive substances. We know that a day without caffeine is a day without sunshine but we don’t know that caffeine makes us ‘high’ and that is why!
We don’t know that carbohydrates make us ‘high’! — We just like them, we think!
When we go extremely low carb to break this addiction and lower our sugar to cure our diabetes and obesity and the resulting diseases that go with them, we go through ‘drug’ withdrawals and eventually we fall into a slump because we are so ‘used’ to being ‘high’ that we think that it is normal. We think we can’t live without it!
The Inuits were already getting ‘high’ on tea when Dr. Vilhjalmur Stefansson joined them. — Like a duck takes to water is how we are to stimulants like coffee, tea and carbohydrates. — We just walk right in and swim and think it’s normal.
Our thyroids levels drop because they have been so used to being ‘high’ on carbohydrates all there life. — We think we are supposed to be high and now we think we are depressed and our thyroid level shows this to be both real and true. — The thyroid is actually going back to where it would normally have been had we not become carbohydrate addicts when we were just babies. If we just hold our course we will feel really good again! — It’s really hard to do though!
This ’stall’ with the weight loss is a prime example of all of this.
I am just a ‘laymen’ and all this only works within the sugar and carbohydrates are ’stimulant addictions’, hypothesis, and the we are getting ‘high’ hypothesis, that I live by.
Jimmy Moore is going through this right now and so am I!
Jimmy was down to almost under 200# and is now up to 265#. I was down to 282# and am now back up to 320# so all of this is being worked on intently right now as we speak.
I know what my problem is and I believe it is Jimmy’s problem too. — It’s called a sugar or carbohydrate addiction and addictions in general.
I will solve mine and eventually Jimmy will too. — We are dedicated. Jimmy uses exercised off weight loss as well as low carb. I use low carb only.
He believes in his and I believe in mine. — Both of ours work if we don’t ‘fall off the wagon’!
People stay on speed because of the endless depression and upset if they DON’T! — It’s a tough fight and it takes a long time!
To be normal and healthy again is worth it’s weight in gold! — That’s healthy, mind, body and spirit!
Dr. Jay’s Reply:
Jimmy tells me that he was down to 215 at one point but that his weight has crept up recently.
Dr. Jay,
I think I may have similar problems as scotiagirl.
I have been strictly following the low carb diet since march 19th after seeing your doc.
I have also read Good Calories Bad Calories and other articles by Gary Taubes and am absolutely convinced that low carbs is the healthy way to eat.
I quickly lost 8-10 lbs. and about 2 inches around my waist.
I was thrilled as I was able to fit into pants that I had not been able to do up the week before.
Altho’ I have been diligent about my carb intake I have not been able to lose another ounce. In fact this week I was up about 3 lbs.
8 years ago I lost 50lbs on the Zone diet and kept it off for 2 years. I then retired and drastically changed my routine and eating habits and had gained most of it back.
I am 58, 5′7″, 185lb. and still premenopausal. I am wearing a size 16.
Diabetes and heart disease run in my family tho’ I have never had cholesteral problems but had gestational diabetes with my first pregnancy.
Other than my weight I consider myself very healthy..I never seem to be ill.
Currently my low carb eating looks like this….
Breakfast— 2-3 cups of decaf with whipping cream in the mornings, 2 eggs fried in butter with either old cheddar or canadian bacon and spinach.
Lunch—salmon or tuna with Hellmans, celery, red pepper and onion with salad greens OR greens with 1/2 avacado and bacon and an egg with oil, mayo and vinegar dressing or a beef patty bbq’d or fried with butter with old cheddar and mayo and dijon with some mushrooms and onions or a green salad.
Dinner–steak, pork, fish with your faux potatoes or creamed cabbage (cabbage whipping cream and butter), broccoli, asparagus, brussels sprouts.
I am never hungry and rarely snack, maybe a handful of almonds 3X a week or celery with peanut butter (I think I have had that 2X since march)
I have indulged in the odd scotch and soda and a couple of glasses of white wine with dinner about once a week.
I did not have any withdrawl symptoms when I started this.
I have been telling everyone about this way of eating but of course they think I am nuts and of course they do not see me losing any weight.
My response is only that I am able to eat all this fat and have not gained a ton of weight in two months.
I am going to the Dr. next week…what should he check for besides the usual cholesterol and blood sugar levels? I do have my thyroid checked as my mom had thyroid problems. Is there anything more specific?
Sorry this is so long but I am perplexed and disappointed that I have not lost the weight I thought I would have.
Than you for your thoughts…
Dr. Jay’s Reply:
It sounds like you are eating the right kinds of food. As I said in an earlier post, there are some things to look for and thyroid is one of them. Your doctor should check your TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone). You should also ask for a C-reactive protein. There are a myriad of benefits from eating this way beyond just weight loss. One that is clearly emerging in the research is that this diet is anti-inflammatory. Your C-reactive protein and your white blood cell count, both indicators of the level of inflammation in your system, should both drop down to the low end of the normal range. This is a good thing as we know that inflammation is at the root of chronic diseases including diabetes, cardiovascular disease, arthritis, etc etc. A study by Cassandra Forsythe et al, published in Lipids last year, showed that a battery of inflammatory markers dropped significantly on low-carb vs low-fat. There was also a big improvement in quality of the LDL (bad cholesterol) sub-particles. Your lipid profile should show a drop in triglycerides and possibly a rise in your HDL (good cholesterol). Your doc may be alarmed to see a small rise in your LDL (or not). If this is the case, although we don’t routinely test the LDL sub-particles, you should take comfort in knowing that a low-carb diet like yours will shift the LDL away from the atherogenic type towards the healthy type. Don’t let an increase in LDL scare you if you see a drop in triglycerides and a rise in HDL. Probably the biggest benefit in following a low-carb diet can be found in the reduction in oxidative stress (AKA free radical production) that occurs at the cellular level when you stop burning glucose and shift to ketones and fat. A recent study by Jarrett et al that will be coming out in the Journal of Neurochemistry showed that the way a low-carb diet reliably cures childhood epilepsy was through this mechanism in brain cells. They talk about the importance of this finding in other neurological diseases like ALS and MS, however, I think this will also turn out to be important throughout the body as this effect would be seen in all the cells, not just in the neurons. My friend, Dr. Steve Phinney, has been doing some interesting work with Dr. Craig Warden at UCDavis which is demonstrating in mice other benefits of a low-carb diet at the cellular level. All this to say, even though it is frustrating to find that weight loss is not happening as much as you’d like, there are lots of good reasons to stay the course. I think you can significantly improve your metabolic health even when your weight remains high. And, I think you will eventually find your weight will drop, too.
The Absolute Zero Drug or The Absolute Zero Carb Diet or ‘The Absolute Traditional Indigenous Peoples Diet’ like Dr. Jay Wortman of Canada is trying.
Call it what you want but what I’m looking for is a few people to try this diet with me.
It is Genuinely Drug Free and Sugar Free. — Zero Alcohol. Zero Tobacco. Zero Caffeine. Zero Pharmaceuticals. Zero Thyroid medicine. Zero Vitamines and Zero Supplements and Zero artificial sweeteners.
There is no forced exercise.
If this sounds crazy just think about all of the species including man for millions and millions of years and what they ate and drank and ingested and what they still eat and drink and ingest with the exception of modern man.
There will be no marijuana or cocaine or speed or any other drug in this test.
Zero anything, except for water to drink and meat and eggs and a few extremely low carb vegetables to eat and wild rice and very occasional wild berries and wild fruit. — So that makes it not genuinely zero carb but it does make it very nearly so and it does make it The Absolute Indigenous Traditional Peoples Diet that the entire world knew and lived with in perfect health for tens of thousands or millions of years. They lived to be old and in perfect mental and psychical health for there entire life. — Sound mind and sound body and spiritually perfect in every way. — They raised there young the same way. — Infant mortality was nearly zero.
This is a northern North American diet! — But you can live anywhere. — There will be lots of fish and seafood and wild animals and wild birds and wild vegetables and wild fruits and wild seeds whenever possible.
Unfortunately domesticated and farm raised game and vegetables will also be a mainstay in this diet for many of us.
This is a calling for a few people that would like to try this diet with me.
They can be fat or skinny or a little bit fat or enormously fat and any size, weight or gender. Young or old.
No children please because this could be dangerous to our health because of all the damage done to our health by our current eating and drinking and ingesting all of these foods and drinks and drugs for all of these years. Most of us since shortly or immediately as soon as we were born began poisoning ourselves.
We will simply eat and drink and breathe what we were intended to eat and drink and breathe like all of the other species.
This diet will include lots of sunshine as well as night air. Night and day but mostly day.
I’m hoping to get one or two takers to join me on this diet. — We will be making history!
What ever I missed can be added or changed or deleted later.
Thank You
Tom Bunnell
Just for the record here — I am the only guy on the planet earth that has figured out how and why the white race massacred and brutally took over of the whole world except for China! — I am white.– I think only a white man could have figured all this out and brought it forward.
The Kings and Queens first captured and hybrid sugar and carbohydrates and starch.
I don’t think they even knew that these were stimulants like the newer stimulants called speed or amphetamines or cocaine or methamphetamine. — They thought they really were that great and gods gift to the earth and everybody else heathen. — They didn’t know it was the drug high like adrenaline that made them feel and think they were superior and therefore it was right to slaughter whole villages and nations. — The Vikings were equal monsters and for the same reason.
This diet proves this!
Hi AndreaK,
I’m reposting my response to you here in case you missed it in the other giant thread. I also realize I left out two other possible helps — iodine & maitake mushrooms. I don’t know where you live, but many in the US are iodine deficient. Not only is our soil iodine-poor — but many many pollutants and chemicals that are so pervasive in our food and environment displace or block the iodine in our bodies. I do not advocate trying iodine supplements without medical supervision, but you could try incorporating small amounts of sea vegetables into your diet. The brown seaweeds — kombu and wakame especially can have a beneficial effect on metabolism. Wakame is absolutely delicious and the taste is reminiscent of spinach noodles. You can buy it pre-cut so all you do is give it a quick soak (it quickly expands and absorbs the water) and toss in a salad or scramble with eggs or add to shrimp/seafood salad or simply as a tasty side-dish. Roll your scrambled eggs in nori sheets. Snack on a few pieces of red dulse straight from the bag. A little seaweed may help your metabolism. Do not suddenly add large amounts — just small amounts daily or every other day. It’s worth a try and can add variety to the usual low-carb vegetables.
Maitake mushrooms are wonderful diet additions. Buy them dried and snack on a few right from the bag or reconstitute and be sure to drink the soak water or use it as a soup base. Maitake seems to have a beneficial effect on blood glucose and metabolism. Supplements made from maitake are used to enhance the immune system but I like to simply eat the mushrooms. Try adding them a few times a week. You can also buy them fresh depending upon where you live. The dried make a nice crunch snack though.
Here are some other thoughts on your weight stall from my prior posting. You may have developed a sensitivity to dairy products which could cause you to retain water, masking further weight loss. I am not saying you have a classic dairy allergy, but perhaps just a sensitivity to it. I know I do and I grew up eating dairy but discovered it caused me to plateau despite eating very low carbs. It was difficult for me to believe this but I reluctantly tried omitting all dairy and the scale quickly resumed a downward trend. This was not merely the result of cutting calories because I purposely added calories to make up for the lost dairy calories. Try cutting out all dairy products or at least all dairy except for butter if you must have it. Best to go cold turkey and cut them all out though. Try this for 7 days and see if the scale number drops. Also, I find I can get away with unpasteurized sheep cheese but quickly bloat with cow dairy products. So experiment if you feel you need to eat dairy but you may feel much better without it. Nothing ventured nothing gained.
Since saturated fat is vital for health and metabolism — replace butter with organic virgin coconut oil. It contains naturally occurring MCT (med. chain triglycerides) and many — including myself — have found it absolutely kickstarts weight loss. It is delicious as a dressing or for curries etc. There are several brands available — I like the one from Tropical Traditions.
Also, while calories don’t count as much on low carb, they still count to some degree — especially for women. As you lower your weight, you should try slightly cutting calories. I do not mean go low calorie or slavishly count every calorie. I just mean to slightly, ever so slightly, reduce portions. For example, I used to eat 3 egg omelets with 3 turkey sausage links for a typical breakfast. Then I realized that I was just as satiated with 2 egg omelets and/or 2 turkey sausage links. I had just eaten more out of habit. Make sure you aren’t eating unlimited amounts simply because meat has practically zero carbs. Also, I grew up eating huge American size meat portions ie 12oz or more per serving and I am a short female! Now I realize that I can be just as satiated on 4-5 oz per meal so long as the cuts are sufficiently fatty.
Try incorporating unsweetened, organic oolong tea into your regime. Green tea — organic sencha — unsweetened is also good. Add a little cinnamon and powdered ginger but no sweetener. Use cayenne in your seasoning.
Do not use any artificial sweeteners — you may have a sensitivity to them.
Thyroid problems are endemic, especially amongst we gals and especially amongst us gals who are middle-aged plus. So definitely find a competent doc to check out your thyroid. I highly recommend 2 books on this topic: the classic by Broda Barnes MD “Hypothyroidism: The Unsuspected Illness” plus a new classic by the Dr. Mark Starr MD “Type 2 Hypothyroidism”.
Realize that food sensitivities are common and often go undiagnosed. That is why you need to omit certain common food allergens one by one and see if your weight begins to drop. Common culprits: nuts, eggs, dairy products, wine. I know these are low-carb staples but for some reason, they can cause stalls and are common allergens. Don’t waste money ofn dubious allergy tests or expensive close-minded allergists who only believe in the notoriously unreliable skin scratch testing — simply omit certain foods for 7 days and see how you feel. You know your body best. You can develop a sensitivity to anything you ingest or perhaps the molds (cheese and peanut butter for example are naturally moldy foods) which is causing water retention or affecting your metabolism.
Finally, walk for an hour a day — preferably first thing in the morning BEFORE breakfast. If one hour is too long, then start with 30 minutes. Up and at em for 15 minutes at a brisk clip then turn around and come home — reward yourself with a nice low-carb breakfast.
I’m sorry to be so longwinded and I hope what I’ve written can be useful to you. Best of luck and if you take it one day at a time and try not to get discouraged, I know you will succeed. Don’t let small setbacks throw you off course. Persistence is the horse that wins.
Dr. Jay’s Reply:
Thank you for your suggestions. It will be interesting to see if Andrea gets the results that have so far eluded her.
AndreaK –
I just took a look at Dr. Michael Eades’ low-carb blog and today’s topic is about those who are struggling to lose despite keeping carbs very low. You may find something helpful for your situation in his posting.
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/weight-loss/low-carb-and-calories-2/#more-1243
Dr. Jay’s Reply:
Dr. Eades offers some good advice on this topic. Thanks for the link. In general, I think his is one of the better blogs on low-carb out there.
Thanks Teagal .
I live in Nova Scotia…lots of seaweed here!
I looked at Micheal Eades blog. Thanks for the link.
It makes sense.
I will try the dairy first.
I do eat cheese and of course the whipping cream in my decaf coffee!
So it’s tea for me and no dairy or nuts.
I’m in for a big test…am off to New Mexico this week…10 days of mexican food! tortillas and cheese!!!
Will report when I return.
Dr. Jay’s Reply:
Lots of carb in those tortillas! Let us know how it all works out.
My newest reciepe discovery!
Food that we love and look forward to eating is probably the most important facet of this diet! — Food and drinks that don’t taste great and are to small of amounts are the biggest challenge we face. — We will sabotage our diet to get away from tasteless and not satisfying food and drink if we are not careful! The same with to small of amounts! — Don’t forget that we are drug addicts and our drug is hybrid and processed and refined carbohydrates and starch and sugar and flour.(all of them).
My new diet discovery is a milestone discovery for me and I think many of you will benefit from my discovery!
First I will tell you about my emergency food! — Yesterday I was on my way to Fargo, North Dakota (about 50 miles away). — I hadn’t eaten and it was raining and I have to wait an hour or more after I get up to eat because I have to take my Thyroid Pill (Levothyroxine 100 MCG once a day) for my radiation treated thyroid gland, on an empty stomach and then wait at least an hour before I eat.(no problem usually)
I was on the way and had just left the house and gotten to town three miles away on my way to Fargo this day and I was planning on eating at the all you can eat steak buffet in Fargo so I didn’t bring any food with me. — I got a call from my daughter wanting to know if I would watch the kids while she went to a few appointments in town.(Detroit Lakes, Minnesota) Our small town of 6500 that grows to twice or triple that with tourism from all over. A lot from Canada.(We have what they call WE Fest, a country music festival that brings in 100,000 people every August for about a week. — Twenty miles north on the White Earth Indian Reservation there is a Pow Wow every June 14 for three days celebrating the first day of there arrival on there new Reservation just after the Civil War! They also have a large Casino and convention center! — We have a lot of action around here but mostly it’s just peaceful small town life. We are a part of all this bussell though!
So yes, I wanted the kids! I always want the kids. No problem. Three girls 10 and 7 and 6 — Babo(Casey), Areanna and Hannah.
It turns out they hadn’t eaten because they had just gotten up and there mother was in a hurry. It was close to eleven o’clock by now so we (the kids and I) were considering McDonald’s or the Chinese Buffet. Three dollars each at the Chinese Buffet won out so we went there. — Nine Dollars plus tax for all three($2.99 each no adult required! Amazing! — There mother paid and a good time was had by all.
The kids are not on my diet but I do restrict them from what they eat and drink a lot. — Like no pop or juice or milk or ice cream or potatoes or fryed bread or corn etc etc. They still eat a lot of carbohydrates that they shouldn’t but nobody believes me and I can’t do anything about it. I don’t force the issue! Nobody wants to hear it or do it.
I don’t eat when we go to McDonald’s or the Chinese Buffet or most anywhere we eat out. It saves money and my diet will only allow to eat meat and eggs and only a few vegetables so unless I go somewhere where I want to spend the money I just bring my food and water with me and eat in the car or at a park or something. I always carry pickles and water with me.
After eating we went to the park to play on the swings for awhile and I still hadn’t eaten which was OK because I no longer get sick if I don’t eat after getting off from the carbohydrates but I was pretty sure this was going to go on for several hours or more and sometimes swimming so I wanted to eat something anyway.
So I fell back on my emergency food plan for when I’m away from home and have nothing and need to eat. — I went to the grocery store and bought a pound of baloney for $2 on sale. — I only buy the one carb per serving variety and that was what was on sale.(Oscar Meyer chicken and pork and meat bologna). Sixteen serving per container. 16 Ounces. — I ate it all! — Problem solved!
We had a great day and later that evening about seven o’clock I came home and although I don’t usually like to eat after six in the evening, I do usually like to eat my second meal.(just because I can) — Three meals would be to many!
I had my 3/4 of a pound of bacon thawed and had bought a dozen eggs and could have cooked and eaten them and they are always good but fishing and eating fish was on my mind, which it often is but I have had this problem with the way to cook fish on my low carb diet! — My whole life I would flour my fish with common white bleached flour and with some salt and pepper and maybe some garlic powder and then fry them to a golden brown in Lard or Crisco. — I can build a bone pile about a foot high eating fish this way! I love it!
No flour, no more! — Pure Sugar! Worse than sugar!
So I have been going without fish forever and suffering for it!
So this evening I decided it was time to fish! I had just bought while I was in town after I dropped the kids off a fishing pole at the Pawn Shop. He wanted $15 and I got it for $12 no tax! — A Mitchell 300 open face spinning reel from the 1950’s, it’s black and in mint condition and on a six foot graphite rod that is a good one and with a steel leader and a hook and bobber, ready to fish! — $12 Bucks!
I have six of these reels now I love them.
So I went fishing, not knowing how I was going to cook them. — I was thinking about boiling them which can be really good but I’m not set up the best for boiling right now. I mostly fry in my square electric frying pan. It works great and I could boil in it but I wanted to fry the fish without flour, although OK it wasn’t very appealing to me. I had tried it several times and the fish were just barley eatable. Pretty bland. OK if you were starving but not very appealing.
It was seven thirty in the evening and I brought a shovel along to the lake and dug some worms that I knew from before would be there because it had been raining a lot for the last several days. I got about twenty of them pretty easily.
(This all took place last night!)
A couple of kids were on the dock that I see there pretty often when we go swimming. They were catching sunfish and bass and that’s what I was after. Mostly sunfish! I love them!
The kids started giving me there fish and I caught a few and then then the kid caught a pretty nice bass, about a pound and a half, the sunnies were about a half a pound, a little small but great eating. the kid had caught a smaller bass and now I had the two bass and about ten sunfish which was about as much as I would eat so I stopped fishing and headed home. — I had brought a spoon and knife with me to clean the fish at the lake so I wouldn’t have the smell and mess at home but had left the butcher knife at home so I just went home, knowing I would just get the knife and go to the other lake across the road from my house and clean the fish. — It took about twenty minutes to catch those fish. The kid had timed us and told me as I left. We were all pretty pleased. An old man had come by and fished for a bit while this was all going on. He told me where everybody was catching fish and I thanked him, he was a pretty congenial guy and we had enjoyed talking. The kids were having fun!
So I got the knife and went across from my house and cleaned my fish at that public access in the grass and threw the guts and heads and fins and scales back in the lake and had fresh clean fish. — After I got home I washed them again in fresh water and they were ready to cook. — Gorgeous-beautiful!
My electric frying pan was a small bit oily from the hamburger I had fried the night before but not nearly enough! — It hit me to fry my bacon I had thawed and then the fish and then it hit me to just put the three quarters of a pound of bacon that was bacon chunks and pieces and pretty fat in the pan and spread them out like I always do and then dump the fish on top of them. The fish were not fillets although those would have worked even better but these fish were scaled with the heads and tails and fins cut off. My favorite way. With the skin on and the bones in.
So I did it. I set the frying pan on low to where you could just hear it frying some and put the fish in with the bacon and then salt and peppered and garlic powdered them and began cooking all this at the same time. — I went to my computer and looked at the clock.
I know this pan and the heat setting I was on and I knew it was cooking slow but would still brown. — I was about twenty feet away and at my computer. After awhile I could smell and hear them a little bit. — I let them go for about fifteen minutes. I knew the pan wouldn’t burn them at that setting.
The fish were stuck but cooking nicely and the bacon was browning well and everything looked and smelled great. I thought I was on to something. — I turned everything over and unstuck the fish the best I could but there was a lot of stick but that was OK. — Everything was turned and I lightly salt and peppered and garlic powdered the other side. The grease had been making a lot of grease but the fish were sucking it up pretty good. I was on my way to hog heaven!
I went back to my computer and fifteen minutes later when I knew they were done(the bass was pretty fat so I went a little longer than I normally would have) I got up and went to get them. — They were beautiful and smelled great.
I had my platter ready but knew that with all that sticking I would have a mess if I tried to remove them from the pan and put them on my platter so I decided to eat them from the pan.
I unplugged the cord and carried the frying pan with the cooked fish and bacon and grabbed a cloth bath towel and some paper towels and headed to my couch where I sit at my computer and my jug of fresh drinking water. — It was pure bliss! I’ve never had a better meal in my life. I ate them with my fingers and went to hog heaven. My fish are back!
I can buy ocean fish and catch fresh fish for the rest of my life! I now know how to cook them and so do you! I love it!
Thank You!
-Tom
Dr. Jay’s Reply:
Sounds like fishing heaven there! The recipe sounds delicious, too.
Hey Doc! — Have I got a prize for you! — I found it after looking about everywhere in my house! — I had remembered seeing it awhile back and I knew I still had it. I had loaned it out one time with an insistence that I get it back. I want you to keep it! It was given to me by I don’t remember who a long time ago regarding Indian health and the person asked me if I wanted it and I said yes. I knew at the time that it was important and it was. She had several of them and was happy for me to have one — It’s a VHS tape called REZROBICS — you’ve probably seen it or maybe not. — It’s a tape made by some Sioux Nation people in North Dakota or Ojibwas, I think it is. — They have several first nations peoples lives they are following regarding diabetes and some wondrously warm and genuine people in it and also some great native american humor. This one guy is great!
I would like to send it to you for you to keep if you don’t have it or haven’t seen it. I think you will really like it.
I got to thinking about it when I heard about your BFD Documentary DVD and somebody said the humor in it was wonderful! Right away I remembered this tape and knowing a lot of native people I knew what he was talking about. — I sat with a native lady grandma last night at a little league baseball game our mutual grandson was playing in. The little ones, they are so much fun to watch, we just chuckled and laughed all the way through it! We had a great time!
Anyway I got this tape, I hope you take it! — If you will email me your address I will mail it to you!
Here it is, I Googled and found it! — You no doubt have it but if you don’t I would still like to mail you mine!
http://www.onlisareinsradar.com/archives/000696.php
Dr. Jay’s Reply:
I appreciate your generous offer but I don’t have a VHS player anymore, just DVD and TiVo.
The low-carb approach has certainly resulted reduction of stored fat for me. I have gone from about 15% body fat down to about 7% body fat. I do work out for 30 minutes 2-3 times per week, but I have been doing that all along.
Concerning blood lipids, consistent with Dr. Jay’s comments, after going to a very low-carb diet (no grain, starchy vegetables or high glycemic fruits) my HDL went up, my triglycerides are below normal range, my c-reactive is at the bottom of normal, my VLDL is at the bottom of normal and my apoprotein levels are at the bottom of normal range. My LDL, however, did go up, giving me total cholesterol of 5.26. In the three previous years I hade been 3.6, 3.2 and 3.9 total. I only had the HDL, non-HDL breakdown for those years. My total to HDL ratio was at about 2.7 for 3 years and was 3.1 this year.
The 5.26 figure causes me to pause, but presumably this is okay if it is HDL and LDL that increase the toal and VLDL is rock bottom. Am I worng on this, or should I be more concerned about the LDL level?
Dr. Jay’s Reply:
I was in Egypt for a few days, hence the delay in replying to recent posts.
I would not be concerned with the small rise in LDL. This can happen on low-carb and there is some debate as to why. It may be due to the release of stored fat during the time you are losing weight. My colleagues report that if there is a rise, it is often a transient one. We also know from the recent work of Forsythe, et al that the quality of your LDL will be greatly improved on low-carb. The shift towards healthy LDL would outweigh any perceived problem with an over-all rise in the LDL number. If your TAG is down, HDL is up and your ratio is within the normal range, I would view that as a good result and one that is typical of this diet. Ditto for the reduced CRP. Total cholesterol is basically useless as a predictor of cardiovascular risk. This has been known since early Framingham. In fact, in that study there was a striking correlation between low cholesterol and increased cancer which implies that a higher total cholesterol may be healthier (presumably if the ratio is okay).
Dr. Jay
Thanks — I see it’s available on DVD at the above link for free plus shipping for Native Americans everywhere and they encourage everybody to then copy it and spread it all around. — They are trying to cure the diabetes epidemic!
I think they are Nez Pierce.
Your piece of the pie is what they have needed!
I appreciate your allowing me to post now and then, I will honor that and not overdo it!
Thank You
Tom
Dr. Jay’s Reply:
No worries - all opinions are welcome here.
Dr. Jay
I’m doing your diet to the letter and it is working perfectly!
Your reinforcement was very much needed. I was close! — The Traditional Diet took it over the top!
Thank You
Dr. Jay’s Reply:
I’m glad to hear it’s working for you. Let us know how it goes.
Dr. Jay
I’m going to tell you what feels better than all of this!
It’s not being ‘high’ and ’stimulated’ unnaturally on sugar! — No sugar, no artificial sweeteners, no fruit, no milk, no caffeine, no alcohol, no tobacco, no stimulants of any kind. — Nothing but water, meat and eggs and a few very low carb vegetables!
How many people in America can say this, or for that matter, how many people in the world can say this!
Dr. Jay’s Reply:
Wholesome, whole foods - you can’t go wrong with that!
Dr. Jay
Your like a beacon in the night where few ships are currently sailing. — Your steadily and persistently doing your job without complaint! — Eventually this ocean of ‘traditional health’ is going to ring through and these waters will be flooded and filled with millions upon millions of people, seeking to regain there health.
Trusting your studies are progressing nicely.
Thank You
Dr. Jay’s Reply:
Thanks for the kudos.
-Tom Bunnell
I just returned from a two-week trip in Italy that was essentially a dine-around tour. Checked out all the best cheese shops I could find, savouring the local fresh cheeses in particular. We ate out every night–three course meals. Having stuffed my gullet most nights, I walked after dinner and on getting up inthe morning, and of course we walked around ruins, museums and streetscapes much of the day. Of course I avoided grains, starchy vegetables and desserts (well, just a spoonful here and there). For dessert I would have cheese, or in Venice–sardines in sauerkraut, which were somewhat sweet. Ate all the vegetable side dishes I could get–it is hard to get lots of vegetables dining out every meal.
When I returned home I cringed getting on the scale. I was so shocked at the result I had to use a second scale–I had dropped six pounds to my lowest weight since I was 15 or 16 years old (over 30 years ago).
Eat wisely and you can feast your way around Italy for two weeks eating the best cheeses, meats, seafood and vegetables. It was sheer culinary delight. And quite frankly, I prefered the fresh local peccorino cheeses over the small tastes of dessert I had anyway.
Dr. Jay’s Reply:
Sounds lovely. We used to vacation in Italy prior to the arrival of our son. Our last visit there was when he was two and just prior to my discovering that I had type 2 diabetes. We used to eat the risottos, pastas and focaccia breads back then. No more! It’s good to hear from your experience that it is possible to enjoy a low-carb culinary experience there. Makes me want to get back there again!
Dr. Wortman could you please refer me to reading material or studies that show what was claimed in your documentary that all the nutrients that we think we need to eat from fruits and vegetables are in saturated fat. I surmised this long ago when I read about Viljalmur Steffanson’s experience eating Inuit food and how he kept scurvy at bay by eating blubber, ate almost entirely a wide variety of protein and ate zero carbohydrates. But the statement in your documentary is the first time I have had it corroborated. I would like to read more about this specifically.
Could you also tell me if they people in Alert Bay who stayed on the diet became ketotic?
Dr. Jay’s Reply:
Steffanson, in the famous Bellevue experiment, showed that if you ate only protein and fat, your requirement for a lot of the vitamins drops. This explained why the Inuit, who had very little vitamin C in their diet of fat and protein, did not die of scurvy. Although I believe this is true, in our study we hedged our bets by supplying a mulit-vitamin to participants. In reality, I don’t think many of them actually took their vitamins and everyone appeared to do just fine.
Yes, they became ketotic which is a normal condition when you don’t eat enough carbohydrates to supply the brain with glucose. The brain switches to burning ketones which are produced by the liver from fat. There is no harm in this “physiological ketosis”, not to be confused with the dangerous ketoacidosis that can occur in type 1 diabetics when they don’t take insulin.
Hi everybody,
this is a comment on the inablility to lose weight the second time round. Just a few suggestions: age plays a role, the older you are, the longer it takes to lose weight (as I know from experience). Sluggish thyroid maybe? Happens more often than one thinks. Do you eat soy foods? Don’t. They act as a suppressive to thyroid function and with their content of plant hormones can play havoc with your body’s hormones. Do yourself a favour and stay away from soy foods. Don’t fall for the myth of the soy-loving Asians. They will eat the occasional morsel of tofu and use soy sauce as a condiment but that’s it. No sane Asian person would ever dream of consuming soy milk or - horror of horrors - soy yoghurt.
Dr. Jay’s Reply:
It is true that we drop our metabolic rate as we age and that this can contribute to weight gain. Another interesting thing I have discovered is that while, we are eating a high carb diet, our thyroid production runs high and that it drops when we go on a low-carb diet. This may explain why some people plateau early in their weight loss. It also fits with my theory that, when we eat carbs, our body burns them preferentially, not because it likes them but because it is desperate to get rid of them. Ramping up metabolism with extra thyroid hormone would help to increase the burn rate. Perhaps this is why we see so much hypothyroidism as the thyroid gets stressed from running in overdrive in response to a high-carb intake. Speculation on my part but I think it all hangs together.
Interesting perspective on soy. I like a little fried tofu with seafood stuffing when I am indulging in dim sum which is rare these days. Otherwise I tend to avoid soy products.
best wishes
Dr. Jay,
I have a lingering question about coronary plaque buildup. I read a lot of commentary claiming that high levels of fat in the blood cause it to stick to vessel linings, causing narrowing of the arteries. Other commentary suggests that, no, it is a body response to inflammation in the arterial lining. Presumably cholesterol, which is a constructive material for cells, binds to the vessel lining to cement over inflammatory damage. If so, it is not the fat in the blood, unless the fat itself causes the inflammation. That seems unlikely although I read many claims correlating saturated fat intake to inflammation. I would have thought saturated fat would be fairly inert in the blood.
To me it seems more plausible that excessive blood sugar causes cross-linking or oxidative damage to vessel lining, which results in inflammation which results in plaque buildup, to seal the damage so to speak. (Why would lower levels of blood sugar be okay, as opposed to all levels). Trying to lower cholesterol, then, is treating a body response to the problem without treating the problem. On the other hand, if the damage is there and starving the system of capacity to produce or deliver cholesterol reduces the buildup of plaque, then I suppose it is better than doing nothing.
I have yet to see reference to conclusive research on any of this. Specifically, I have yet to see convincing evidence that LDL cholesterol (undifferentiated) causes arterial disease. Am I missing something?
By the way, when do you expect the results from Phinney’s research on fat metabolism in cells that you mentioned earlier?
Cheers
Murray Braithwaite
Dr. Jay’s Reply:
Good questions, as usual! While it is easy to visualize fat clogging our arteries the way bacon grease will clog the kitchen drain, it actually is much more complicated than that. I subscribe to the theory that inflammation is at the root of the problem. Something causes inflammation of the arterial wall and in the ensuing physiological process, cholesterol is deposited there. It appears that certain kinds are more likely to be involved, hence the athrogenicity of small, dense LDL. I have seen explanations that propose that damaged cells cause the endothelium to become leaky and that the small particles can get in while the larger ones cannot. I don’t know if this is the true mechanism but it seems to hang together. Then the question becomes what causes the inflammation? Well, we know, for instance, that the toxins that flow through your blood when you smoke cigarettes can do this. In the case of diet, we know that some types of food promote inflammation, fructose, for instance and the high omega-6 vegetable oils. It also appears that a high-carb diet is pro-inflammatory in general, probably from the oxidative stress of burning all that glucose. Cassandra Forsythe et al published a study in Lipids a few months ago where a low-carb diet went head-to-head with a low-fat diet and all the inflammatory markers dropped dramatically on low-carb.
Steve Phinney and Craig Warden are doing work at UCDavis that should shed some light on the fundamental cellular mechanisms at play when you eat carbs vs fats. I think it’s going to upset a lot of people when it gets published but I don’t know when that will be at this point.
Dr Jay,
I understand that you can’t/shouldn’t give medical advice over the net, so I won’t ask. However, I do have a question about a condition from which I have suffered for a long time which doctors have been fairly unresponsive on.
Starting about 10-15 years ago, I noticed that I got hungry quickly after eating refined carbs or sugary foods. This developed into getting shaky/anxious after eating these foods. I eventually made the connection with my eating and my symptoms. After I got to about 100 lbs overweight, I went to my doctor and she said I should see an endocrinologist. When I went to the endocrinologist, he suggested that “you should eat a few less carbs”. I asked him if a low-carb diet would be appropriate and he indicated that was an option, but that I would probably find it too restrictive. That week I started the Atkins diet and within no time I dropped 50+ lbs. The next 15 pounds came off painfully slow with significant calorie restriction. The lowest I ever got was 215 lbs which was still about 30+ pounds overweight.
Initially when I began low-carb I found that symptoms improved substantially but I later found that they were not gone for good even if I avoided high-carb foods. I found that artificial sweeteners caused the same issues as well and decided to start avoiding those. I thought I would have the problem licked and then found that a breakfast of lean protein and some low-carb veggies caused the same symptoms. I decided to ramp up the amount of fat in my diet and to not overconsume protein and nearly completely avoid veggies except in the evening when I eat very small portions of low-carb veggies. Things have improved a bit, but I still frequently get the “low blood sugar” symptoms I have had in the past, shakiness, anxiousness, cold sweats.
Despite all the times that I experience these symptoms, it is inconsistent. Sometimes I can go 5 - 8 hours without eating, other times I develop symptoms within minutes of eating. To mitigate the symptoms, I have learned to eat my meals very slowly with most of them lasting at least a half hour. This seems to help some. I also keep high protein/high fat snacks handy whenever I get hungry.
Sorry if I have gone on and on, but this is really driving me insane now and I am looking for anyone to help me understand what’s going on. I recently began pursuing this with my new doctor and her initial advice was eat 6-7 times a day and eat “a little bit of everything” such as granola bars etc. I will humor her in terms of eating with greater frequency (as my appetite demands) but I will not eat grain/sugar based foods.
Any thoughts or advice? I used to think this was just plain old reactive hypoglycemia, but since the symptoms don’t seem to diminish with the absence of carbohydrates, I suspect there is something more going on.
If you have any advice on working with my doc, that would be great too.
Thanks for any advice or insight you can offer and thanks for the “My Big Fat Diet” documentary. I got the DVD for my birthday and I really enjoyed it.
Alexander
Dr. Jay’ Reply:
Your problem does sound like reactive hypoglycemia but is puzzling since you continue to have the problem even when eating a very low-carb diet. It may be due to the protein in your diet. Your body does have an insulin response to protein although, as you would expect, it is much lower than the response to refined carbs. I would speculate that in your case the protein may be triggering the hyperinsulinemia that causes your blood sugar to fall. You do need to eat protein and if you don’t eat enough you risk muscle-wasting or, worse, kwashiorkor, a protein deficiency disease. You may want to try experimenting with adding fattier foods and cutting back a little on the protein content. Have a look at this article on the insulin response to various food types: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/66/5/1264
You will find that most people recommend about 0.8 g/kg/d as a reasonable intake for protein. This will vary a little depending on things like your age and how much exercise you are doing (also pregnancy and lactation which, I assume, are not applicable in your case). On a low-carb diet, your liver will be converting protein to carbohydrate through a process called gluconeogenesis. For this reason, you should probably aim for a slightly higher protein intake when doing low-carb. On the other hand, you probably shouldn’t exceed 1.5 g/kg/d unless you are into bodybuilding. I suggest you do some googling around to learn more about this and how much protein various foods contain. Most of us eat more than our daily requirement of protein so I am guessing that you will be able to reduce your intake while still eating enough to meet your daily needs.
Hello Dr. Jay. I’ve been scanning the letters to see if I’m not being redundant in my comment. I was surprised that I didn’t see any mention of Stevia leaf when sugar alternatives were discussed. Not only is Stevia extremely sweet, but it is diabetic friendly and also very alkaline to help balance systemic pH. I use the loose powder form and just the tiniest pinch by gently tapping the container is all you need to sweeten tea or coffee. It is more expensive but the bottle will seem magical because it never seems to run out! Stevia was a great way for me to wean off the desire for a sweet to top off supper when I was in the induction phase of my high fat diet change. A cup of sweet tea hit the spot for a week or two while my desire for sweets declined.
Now this is probably redundant. My female friend has not responded so well yet to the high fat diet and hasn’t lost any weight yet after several weeks. She is 47, 140lbs and about 5′6″ Her torso is very lean but her thighs and bottom are not quite so. Is it common for women to be slower to respond to the diet changes? I urge her to be vigilant but perhaps you can you offer any comforting words? Perhaps women, because they are more hormonally complex than men take longer to turn on the stored fat mechanism.
-Fred, the RMT
Dr. Jay’s Reply:
I have heard good things about Stevia but haven’t really used it much. I think I will give it a try when I make the next batch of my low-carb chocolate pecan ice-cream (see recipes).
I do think some people have a hormonal milieu that makes it more difficult to lose the weight. The low-carb diet approach will lower the amount of insulin that you produce which is the primary hormone involved in the storage of fat. However, there are other hormones involved as well. For instance the sex hormones are involved and are the determinants of the different fat storage patterns we see when you compare a male physique to that of a female. It therefore makes sense that variations in female hormone levels will impact on the amount and distribution of their fat tissue and the effectiveness of their weight loss efforts. Another hormone implicated in weight gain is cortisol. This is typically high during periods of stress and probably promotes weight gain as part of our primordial survival system.
Although we like to get the instant gratification of seeing the pounds drop off, there are other benefits to carbohydrate restriction, over and above weight loss, and which are evident even in the absence of weight loss. The lipid improvements and the marked reduction in inflammatory markers, for instance. Another consideration is that the body may initially be “remodeling” by building lean tissue as the fat is burned off. This is more likely to occur in someone who has developed insulin resistance and metabolic syndrome. People who experience this will usually notice their waist is shrinking even though they aren’t dropping weight. I hope your partner will stick with it as she should experience these other benefits and may eventually start dropping the pounds, as well.
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